#29: The Power of NOPE: Setting Boundaries Without the Guilt
APRIL 3, 2025
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In this eye-opening episode of "Courage to Heal," host Anna welcomes Suzanne Culberg, the self-proclaimed "Nope coach" who specializes in helping over-givers and people pleasers set healthy boundaries and prioritize themselves.
Suzanne shares practical wisdom on:
How to start setting boundaries (hint: don't begin with family and friends!)
Practical strategies for dealing with pushback when you establish new boundaries
The telling signs of chronic people-pleasing and how it differs from genuine kindness
Why rescuing others from natural consequences prevents their growth
With her straight-talking approach and relatable examples, Suzanne explains how proper boundaries teach others how to treat us. Whether you struggle with over-explaining your "no," ghosting people to avoid conflict, or feeling responsible for others' feelings, this conversation provides actionable advice to help you put yourself at the top of your to-do list—without the guilt.
[00:44] Suzanne's Journey to Boundaries Coaching
[03:23] Understanding the Difficulty of Saying No
[04:32] Practical Tips for Saying No
[06:18] The Role of Boundaries in Personal Relationships
[11:12] Overcoming Fear of Rejection and Conflict
[19:01] Starting Small with Boundaries
[23:56] Handling Pushback on Boundaries
[30:55] People Pleasing vs. Kindness
[37:57] Suzanne's Resources
Episode Links:
Transcript
Anna: Hello, friends, and welcome to Courage to Heal. Today, I am very excited to introduce you to Suzanne Culberg. Suzanne is an author and coach who helps over-givers and people-pleasers learn to set boundaries and say “No” without feeling guilty.
Suzanne is known for her straight talking and her wacky t-shirts. She lives in Sydney, Australia with her husband and two awesome children. Suzanne, welcome to Courage to Heal.
Suzanne: Thank you, Anna. I know it's an audio only show, so I won't stand up, but I was like, what shirt have I got on today? It's like, Houston, I have so many problems.
Anna: That's, yeah, that fits under the category of wacky. I love it. All right, Suzanne. So for those who may not be familiar with you or your work, can you share a bit about yourself and what actually led you to specialize in boundaries and people pleasing?
Suzanne: A hundred percent. So I, Suzanne Culberg, as you said, the NOPE coach, I currently live in Sydney, Australia.
So I'm one hour from the Harbor Bridge or three hours, depending on traffic, there's no in between. And I work primarily with women, though not solely. And helping them to set boundaries, say no, without feeling mean, without feeling guilty, and put themselves at the top of their to do list. And I live this story kind of on repeat myself.
I love how your show is called The Courage to Heal because it's not a one and done, it's a reminder. And a few personal things have come up for me recently. It's been the reminders like, hang on, where am I on my to do list? And it's like, yeah, I'm not, not near the top. And as a result, things tend to Fall over or go by the wayside and suddenly something that is a routine or a habit or something that, you know, you value, it's become so easy to think, Oh, I'll just this once, which becomes this week, which becomes this month, which becomes when was the last time I was at water aerobics?
So it's kind of that reminder that to continually bringing yourself back to you and putting yourself first isn't selfish and that if you don't, like we all know that cliche kind of quote, like don't, you can't pour from an empty cup, but you literally can't. And so many of us are living on dregs. Like if we treated our mobile phones, I think you guys call them cell phones, the way we treat it ourselves.
It's like, we've always got a charger handy or a backup pack, or we know where the next station's going to be. Like we treat our belongings and anybody in our lives with the utmost of care. But then ourselves, we tend to be like a car with all the lights on thinking one more mile. She'll be right. And yeah, it's time for that to, to end and to be celebrated instead of like, I think some reality TV shows have so much to answer for because it's like, Oh, I don't want to be like one of those people who's like all about me and whatever.
But there's a, there's a, a broad spectrum between Louis Vuitton, Gucci and caviar and giving no whatever about anyone else and actually doing bare basic human needs being met. And I think sometimes we fall into this mode, the thinking that we don't want to be like on ourselves so much that we don't care for ourselves at all.
Anna: That makes a lot of sense. And I love your comparison of humans to cell phones because you're right. We do take very good care of our cell phones and make sure that the battery doesn't run below 10 percent for the most part, but not so much about ourselves, yeah. So, you know, we talk about boundary settings so often, I think, but so many people still struggle to say no, so why do you think it's so hard to just say it?
Suzanne: I think conditioning, societal conditioning that, you know, a good girl, a good boy, or a good student, or a good person doesn't say no, like we don't want to hurt others. And I think there's a vast difference between hurt and harm. Like, if you say, do you want to go and do this? And I'm like, no, thank you.
Your feelings may be hurt, but it's not my job to manage your feelings. But it's not harmful to you. I, you know, and I think we, we've kind of lost that difference there between hurt and harm and responsibility for our feelings versus becoming overly responsible for other people's feelings. And I think there is so much, like, no doesn't have to be harsh or cruel or rude or mean.
When you think about it, we say no to things all the time. So say for example, those of you who listen to this show, thank you. Nice to meet you. But you are saying no to something else so that you can say yes to listening to this. You're not listening to your Spotify playlist. You're not watching the latest episode of, of the Real Housewives.
Like you're using this time to listen to this. So we say no all the time, but when it's somebody actually asking us to do something or for our time. A lot of us become really kind of awkward or mean, or then we end up with these weird type of ghosting situations. And it's like, it's so much cleaner. You know, thank you so much for the invite.
I appreciate it. That is true. I'm unavailable. We don't need to tell them why, we don't need to overexplain, like, sometimes when people say no to me and they write this whole email, I'm just like, this is taking much more time than I need. Like, I don't want to not read it, but it's like, this is just a long, or they've written me this long winded thing and I'm still unclear.
Is it a yes or a no? So it's just, I got one last night, it was just this long winded thing. And I read the whole thing and I'm sitting there and I'm like, so which is it? Like, not rudely, but I'm like, I'm still confused. And I think sometimes it's so much cleaner to say, no thanks, I appreciate it, not right now, I'm unavailable, not this time, if it's honest, because I think sometimes too, we feel that we're saying no, but we're really kind of just putting people off, like have a think about the last time you said no to a request, did you, was it clear to the other person that you'd said no, as the most basic example.
My sister, shout out if you're listening to this, she listens to most of my interviews, I love it. She had a she has a really big, like, recycling space and she doesn't use much of it because she's a single person household. And so a friend said can I bring some stuff over to your recycling? And she said, oh, my bin's actually full this week, but my neighbors might have space.
And then she's like, Suzanne, she turns up with like six bags of recycling. What, what, what is it supposed to happen? And this had happened in an exchange. I was like, can you screenshot me what you said? I said, you didn't say no to her. She's like, yes, I did. I said, my recycle bin's full. I said, and then you added on, but my neighbors often have space.
Like, I think sometimes we think people are overriding our boundaries when we haven't actually set one.
Anna: That makes sense. Yes, you're right. And like you said, sometimes it leads to a situation where a person gets ghosted because we feel uncomfortable saying no to them. And other times it might lead to a situation where the person over explains without actually saying no.
So that, that's a weird dichotomy, right? We either disappear completely or we over, over, over explain.
Suzanne: And I think disappearing completely, like, another example, say you invite me to a Tupperware party, a linen party, some sort of party you're having, and I'm like, oh, next time, oh, next time, oh, next time, so then you keep inviting me, and I keep saying next time, and eventually you're like, maybe this is Suzanne's way of kind of blowing me off, so I'm not going to invite her.
If I said, thank you so much for the invite, I appreciate being invited. I don't really do like house party type situations, but if you have a cards games night, I'm there. Like, or if you want to go for a walk or watch a movie or like, let the person know that you want what you want to do. And I think somewhere along the line, we've become like, Oh, well that's pushy or that's rude.
And I'm like, why do we think that? Like if, if you are asking me, Hey, let's go out for a meal, what would you like to eat? But we don't tend to ask open questions. You might say, Hey, do you want to go have Chinese? And I'll be like, Oh, no, thanks. But if I said to you, Oh, I really struggle with the MSG and I have to ask a lot of questions.
Love to eat. Is there something else you want? Like, so yes, say a clean no, if you want to. But also, instead of saying not right now or not this time, if you have no intention of doing the thing ever, let the person know how you'd like to connect in another way. Like people who invite me to who ask me questions or something like that, I don't know, I'm just trying to think of an example.
I might not have the time to respond to every single one. Because in the beginning in business, I had heaps of time, had no clients and I was just starting out, but now I get so many emails, I can't possibly answer them all each week. So, what I do, Is I, I respond, but I'm like, I've got a podcast episode about that and provide a link, or I might discuss that in an upcoming episode.
Thank you for this, but it's like acknowledging that you've had an interaction. So not ghosting, but also saying like, I don't respond to every single email. And like, I don't coach by email is basically where it comes to if you want to book a session here, if you want to listen to the podcast here, but redirecting people to how they can stay in contact with you, I don't find that rude.
Anna: Right, I can definitely see how being very clear, being honest and just saying that no is a much better option than either ghosting or over explaining. So that leads me to ask, do you think no is a word that we should be saying more often in general?
Suzanne: A hundred percent. I think we should be saying it overtly because we say it indirectly, as I said, listening to this, you're saying no to doing something else.
If, if my kids, like, if I'm like, I want to sit down and watch. Whatever show I want to watch. And they're like, mommy, can we watch Mr. Beast on YouTube as a family? Okay. Like I'm saying no to that thing that I was planning to do. Or if I'm wanting to read my book and then my son's like, can we read the next chapter of the one, you know, I read him in the evening.
Yeah, we, we are saying no. And often it is to ourselves and it's not out loud. So maybe even practicing that, like say you plan to do something like this morning. We're recording this in the morning. I have a kid homesick from school. They're okay, but you can't attend. And before this, like, before I do a podcast, I like to do a lot of recharging, alone time.
And he's like, can we do this? I was like, I'd love to, not right now. Mommy's got to work. And before work, this is the plan after, like, I'll circle back after. And also too, when people ask us to do something, like, I think sometimes we become so over invested in other people's lives, like can, can say, you said to me, we weren't separated by continents, but you're like, Suzanne, can you help me move house?
Like, I need a little bit more information, Anna. When? And you're like, tomorrow, at 6am. It's like, I, I can't, you know, there's not enough notice or whatever. And because sometimes people are like, oh, but the movers fell through or all this happened and all these people's drama, which isn't my drama, like, I'm sorry that's happened to you, but me inconveniencing myself and saying no to all the things I had planned to do you a solid.
But unless it was a true emergency, like say your partner or something's gone to hospital or one of your kids, you know, like if you need emergent, like, I think this is a conversation we don't have with people. This is what I'm available. Emergency is a hundred percent, but what actually is an emergency?
Cause I remember when I first started working from home and I said to my kids, don't interrupt me unless it's important. And like, okay, yep. Mom got it. All right. This is during COVID times. I sit down, I just hit record. My daughter comes in. I'm like, is it important? She's like, yeah. I'm like, what is it? I could fit 27 blueberries in my mouth.
Like, okay, we need to have a discussion about what I mean by important, like blood, bone, we need to seek medical attention, important. Something that's a cool fact, it can wait to dinner.
Anna: And you know, what I'm thinking is for many people and in my audience, especially those who went through some kind of trauma in their childhood or adulthood. They can struggle to say no because they fear rejection or conflict. So, do you have any advice when it just feels scary to do so because of prior experiences?
Suzanne: A hundred percent, and that's such valid because you, you recreate, relive, pause, you know, so something that I encourage people to do, when you notice your nervous system response, whatever it is, your heart rate increasing, your mouth feeling dry, you're sudden, urge to clean the freezer.
And by that, I mean, eat a tub of ice cream. You know, you're making space, but like, whatever it is, ask yourself, how old am I? So speaking up for myself, asking for my needs to be met is still a struggle to this day. And a lot of the times it's not, but there are moments where it's like challenging. And if I pause and go, how old am I?
I'm like, I'm six. Like it's just six-year-old me is come to the party, taken over the vehicle. And it's like, just reassuring that part. That, you know, that, that's totally valid. When you were little, you were really encouraged. You don't ask for things like that's, that's the message you got. And so sometimes asking for things is really hard, but like when I say I couldn't ask for things, I remember if I was in an air-conditioned room and I was really cold and I forgot to bring a jacket, I would never ask anybody to turn the thermostat up one or two.
Or if I drop my cutlery on the ground, I'd be like, I wonder if I can just like rinse it with my water. Like, there's a little list of things that people would just easily ask for. Can we turn the heat up? Can we have some new cutlery? Like people, people who don't, haven't had experience of being punished for asking for things have no frame of reference for it.
And even recently, I'm in a, I'm in a group, you're in the Playhouse, Anna? Is that how we met? Yes, I am. Yes. So, Anna and I are in a group called the Playhouse, brilliant business group, and one of my friends is also in it, and she has never been, she joined and she hasn't been, and she said to me, I feel really weird, like, if, how do I turn up, do I just turn up and say hello?
I've been in here for four months, but I've never said, like, she's like, I, I feel weird. So I did a post. And I said, I'm sure she's not the only one who's experiencing this. If you're also feeling weird, what can we do to encourage you to, to come into this place? And what was really interesting to me was like, one of the very first comments is why would you feel weird?
It's just like, so if you've had trauma, if you've had experience and you're trying to articulate that this is challenging for me, asking for things saying no, and someone's like, well, why should you feel like that? That's not helpful. So whatever it is that you're experiencing. You know, sometimes people will be like, Oh, we just do it.
Like you just say, no, you just turn the car on. You just, whatever it is, because they've got no frame of reference. So first of all, it's not weird that you feel that way. How you feel is however you feel. Unfortunately, at least from my experience. It gets easier, but it's never gone, like it comes back.
So sometimes it's like, like I've recorded, I think, 800 podcasts now. I don't tend to get shy anymore, but there are times where I'm like, Oh, you know? And it's like, Whoa, why is this? So a long-winded way to answer your question, ask yourself how old I am, like which version of you has this, give it so much compassion.
And if you have time and space, if you're, it's available to do so. What I tend to do is I close down my eyes. And I invite, you know, six-year-old me, it's usually really quite a young me and I hold her by the hand. It sounds a bit woo, but you know, I'm a bit woo. And I take her on a journey and I'm like, Hey, look, this part, this version of you, like today, Suze has done all of these things.
And guess what? I have a kid who's older than your age. We can have so much fun. Like, because I think I, as I said, my kind of woo type answer is parts of us get frozen in time. And sometimes those parts are kind of really loud and active and it's not making them wrong or banishing them or shaming them or saying you should be better than this by now or any of those voices that are not helpful.
It's just acknowledging them, giving them care, and if it is too much for them today, like if saying no in that circumstance is like, is this, am I agreeing to buy a house or something that's like really, really important chances are it's not, then you can duck under it if you need to. You're going to build up the reps.
You don't have to do it every single time.
Anna: I love that answer. I love inner child work, parts work. So that's, that really resonates with me is asking yourself, how old am I right now? Basically, who's driving the bus, right? And then using self-compassion towards that young part who is really feeling scared, not you, the adult.
Yeah. Okay. Well, Suzanne, so going beyond just saying no because setting boundaries is more than just saying no, you might have to state what exactly is needed as well. So why are boundaries so important in your opinion?
Suzanne: Boundaries teach other people how to treat us. Like, what you allow will continue, like, we know there are laws, and also too, depending on the state or the country that you're in, things that are commonplace when you go somewhere else, you're like, what?
Like, you can get arrested for this? You can just do this? You know? So, we understand laws, we understand, like, boundaries put in place by governing parties. We also understand physical boundaries, as in This is the fence line for my property, abutting the neighbor's property. So I can't go and build a cubby house over there.
That's not my land. Like we understand physical boundaries, but I think when it comes to personal boundaries, where some of the murkiness or confusion comes in is they can be situational. So like the way you are in a workplace might not be the way you are at home, depending on your lifestyle. So. You know, what goes at the workplace, like, you know, we have a dress code here, or, yeah, please don't be that person who puts the tuna and stinks out the entire office.
You know, whereas at home it's like, ha ha, good luck. Like my husband and son had baked beans the other night, my daughter and I suffered so bad. But you know, the situational, but also too, it can depend what's going on for you. If you've had past trauma, or if you've had things going on, or you're highly introverted or sensitive, or you're at capacity.
It might be okay today, and I think this all leans into a conversation about consent too. Consent isn't like you said yes once and now forevermore you're this. Like say you decide, I'm going to host my kid's birthday party in my house. And then you look at your house at the end and you're like, this is never happening again.
And then next year, the kid's like, but you did it last year. And it's like, and that's why we're never doing it again. You know, so it's kind of like they get to move and change. And also they're involving another person. If you're hired at a workplace, you uphold their boundaries because that's the standard that they pay and you respect that.
If you're abiding by the law, so you don't end up in prison. But when their personal boundaries and interactions with other people. There may be some people that you want to do this with and other people that you don't. And I think social media has a lot to answer to because then we get all overthinking because we see them tagging them and sharing that.
It's like, why wouldn't you do that with me? So it's being really open about the conversation. So for me personally, I'm very introverted. All my friends know that. And I'm, I love that I'm at a place now where if you ask me to do something I will say yes, but I'll also give you the proviso that like on the day I might be having an introvert day.
Now, if it's your wedding or your graduation or something really important, it doesn't matter what I've got going on. I'll be there with bells on, but if we're just going to see a movie or just going to have a coffee, you're actually better off if I don't come because it's not going to be the best experience.
So to be at it, have that place that you can get to people where you can be truly honest and say not today and have them know that doesn't mean anything about you as a person. They're not suddenly off with Sarah Sue tagging on Instagram. It's just like, I, cause I think we make it mean when people, if I said to you, I'm not coming a lot of times, but I've got a flat tire or like you make up some BS excuse.
Because really people don't have the stones to like, I just don't feel like it today. And it doesn't mean anything about you, it's just that I'm not at a place. And I think, you know, being able to be honest with people like that is something that we're working towards.
Anna: Oh, I couldn't agree more. Yeah. And like you said, it does tell other people how to treat you when you set those boundaries.
So when somebody is like brand new to setting boundaries, they haven't done it a lot, where do you suggest they start?
Suzanne: Not with friends and family, so not with the people closest to you because they've had years, decades, depending, getting to know this version of you and that's, they're actually going to be the hardest work because you're going to need likely to remind them several times because we think I've told them once they should know, but if you've been the person who, you know, we always have Saturday night games night at my house or yeah, just wear your shoes, I don't care, or just turn up late, it doesn't bother me.
And then you're actually like, actually, Anna, when you turn up late, I, whatever, like, you know, when you start having that conversation, that can kind of, that can kind of be awkward. And also, too, do you even have their full attention? Like, I remember when I first started setting boundaries with my husband.
When my husband's on the Xbox, I could ask him if we could buy a boat and he'd say, yes. He's not paying any attention to me. So it's kind of like choosing how you explain it, choosing like how to let them have inputs so you can negotiate it together. Cause I think sometimes think people like, Oh, I'm setting a boundary.
And it's like, yes. And it's also, how do they understand it? Does it suit them? How can we negotiate this together? So all that to say easiest way, pick something that you find challenging. So for me in the beginning. I was like the premier sucker. Do you want a bag with that? Yes. And they charge for bags here.
I don't know about where you live. Do you want a corncob? Yes. Do you want a side of fries? Yes. Do you want, whatever it is, like the add on sale, I couldn't even say no to that. I was like, Oh my gosh. So going to places like, would you like a bag with that? No, thank you. Here's what I prepared earlier. Or would you like a corncob?
No, thank you. You know, so it's like, thanks. Starting with that. Starting with people who don't know you, don't have any frame of reference for you, and realizing that they're going to ask you again next time anyway, because that's their job. Like, their job, if you work in a takeaway place, is to try and get an add on sale.
Then the place gets, it doesn't mean anything. They don't care that you've said no. My, my sister and I went to the States last year. And it's not as common here, but everywhere, the upsell with every single thing, and she got so frustrated and she was like, why? I'm like, because these guys get paid on like commission or what do you call it?
You guys we don't do it here tip and stuff. So of course they're going to do this, that they're not like nefarious or thinking that you're a terrible person. They're just going to try because the bigger, the more things you buy, the bigger the tip, the more money they get. It's actually kind of a smart system.
But it's kind of like starting with the people who don't know you and doing it in little ways and celebrating it and even boundaries to yourself. Like there was a time where I could not go to the supermarket without buying a chocolate bar. Be like, Oh, you know, it's like, no, Suzanne, not today. And then when I get out of the supermarket, like, yes, go me.
But you know, every little time celebrating that because those boundaries, they get easier over time and then you can start having the discussions with people, but start with small things, even with family, not the biggest, deepest, darkest stuff that's going to maybe start a fight.
Anna: Never would have thought to not start with family and friends, but it makes so much sense because like you said, they already are used to whatever boundaries you said before, whether it's no boundaries at all, or very, you know, un, unclear boundaries, and it's going to be a bit of a struggle to get them to abide by the new rules.
Suzanne: It is challenging. I've got, I've got a really, okay. It's a mundane example, but my mom, she's since passed, but I've been self-employed now since 2017. And she didn't really get the work for yourself thing. Like she understands if you have a job and you're in office. So she just call me like any time. And then if I didn't answer, she'd call again.
So I get off a call, like I get off this podcast and there'd be like 17 missed calls from my mom. And when I see that my nervous system is like, who died? Like, I'm like, there's an emergency. So I was like, mom, I love you so much. If I don't answer, can you not call again? Like I will see the missed call, I'll get back to you.
But this actually really freaks me out because in times of, oh, when, you know, I've seen lots of missed calls from lots of people, something has happened like this, you know, and she just, she didn't get it and she didn't get it and having to re explain it. And then I said to her, cause like she was retired, I was like, how about if you want to talk to me that day, send me a text message and say.
When you're free, can you give me a call? Cause I'd love to talk to you and I love that you're reaching out and I love this, but I can't look at all those missed calls. Cause when I'm ringing back my heart, or if I have my phone turned over, cause sometimes I sneakily do no longer, but I'm like, Oh my goodness.
Or if my kids are at school, if the school calls, I'm always going to interrupt whatever I'm doing to answer that. Cause they're calling, you know. But it took a long time, and I had to re-remind her, and re-remind her, and sometimes she'd be like, oh, so you don't want to talk to me. I was like, no, no, I do want to talk to you.
This is why I'm setting this boundary, because I think sometimes when we set a boundary, people think, oh my gosh, it's because you don't love me or you don't care. It's like, no, it's because I do care. I do want to talk to you. But the system we have right now is stressing me out and I understand it doesn't stress you out.
It's all good. I'm glad it doesn't, but it makes me panic.
Anna: Yeah. So that makes me wonder, how do you recommend dealing with people who push back on boundaries and start arguing with you or in whatever way they might push back?
Suzanne: First thing I want to say is be surprised that it won't happen nearly as much as you think.
Like, yes, it will happen. I'm not denying it. But it actually is amazing how little it does happen, because I think a lot of people's fear is, I don't want to disappoint people, I don't want people to be unhappy with me and whatever. But depending how you have that initial conversation, so another mundane ish type example, the gift of COVID for us has been a lot of downturns, but the gift of COVID is my husband now also works from home, primarily.
He goes to the office here and there. For like two years after our lockdowns, I just took the kids to school because I always had. Do you know what I mean? Like this is the routine we'd had. And then one day I'm there and I'm like. Why can't he take them to school? Do you know what I mean? I was like, he works, he's in the home as much as me.
We are both, anyway, long story short, I just floated the idea. So made sure I had his attention. He wasn't on the X Box. I was like, yo, can, can we talk about this? And he's like, that is an interesting idea. However, although he works from home, he is traditionally employed. He's not self-employed like me. So he had to talk to his boss about it.
And they're like, yeah, just move your morning tea time. You can do your drop off then. Anyway. Sometimes he'd kind of forget and I'd be like dude, what are you doing? Oh, because up until now for this many years of the kid's life, I had done it. And then a couple of times he'd like forget or get in a meeting or whatever.
And he'd get kind of mad. It's like, well, why can't you just do it? I was like, hang on. We had this discussion, this is the agreement that we came to, and kind of the pushback was like, you know, we work for yourself, and I was like, but yes, but I still have things I put on, like this, and also, I'm happy to do it, if you have a meeting, if you have something, but you need to tell me, like, and this is, this is where boundary discussion happens, yes, I work for myself, but if I'm planned on this podcast with Anna at nine o'clock And you're telling me at 8: 45, Oh, you've got to take the kids to school today. This isn't going to work. So like the pushback can sometimes be people's laser focused. Well, I've got to do this. It's not anything about us and we make it all personal. I don't care. They don't want to, you know, and it's like, how do we navigate when these things happen?
And, and what is the thing? And or say okay, I've got an example where it didn't go well. In business, very long story short, I used to coach one to one, then I opened a group program. Now I do one to one again. But anyway, when I made the group program, a lot of people were past one to one clients, so they came to the group because they paid less.
Totally makes sense. I didn't have the boundary, part of the reason you asked the question at the beginning and I missed it. But there's two main reasons I've become a boundaries coach. One of them was this. Was because I just let them, I answered all their emails and their Voxer messages and I coached by this and whatever and basically people were getting a one-to-one premium service at a group rate.
And I was like, burnt out and exhausted and whatever, so I did a video for the whole group, every single member, tagged them all in it. And I said, up until now, so whenever you want to start a boundary conversation, those three words are going to change your life. Up until now. This is how this has happened.
So you're acknowledging your part in it. You're acknowledging how things have gone down from here forward. So I said from here forward, I won't be answering any emails about the group stuff. If you want to talk about one on one, we can make, you know, the group stuff is inside the group. I also won't be answering any DMS.
I don't do any DMS for my business any longer. That's a whole other story, but anyway. There was a couple of people who were very affronted by this, and they would send me a DM. And I would respond and say, this is handled in the group from now on. And then they would send me another DM, and I would say, this is in the group from now on.
So then I did another video, like a second video, and said, from here on in, up until now, yeah, from here on in, if you send me this stuff, I'm just going to tag you in this video. Like. And sometimes people will push, they'll push. It's like the velociraptors kind of checking the fence. Can I get out? Can I get out?
And they're not nefarious or whatever. They're just, you know, it's so much harder to go into the group. I have to log in and what's my password. It's so much easier just to send you an email or DM. Yeah, it is. But that's not the service that you've hired me for. So there will be pushback and sometimes people will be like, well, I don't want to do it like this.
And it's like, well, do you want one to one? No, I don't want to pay that. Well, then this isn't the space for you. I love you so much. But this is how this space is run. It's like if you had a movie and you're like, I don't want to pay. So you're all kind of crack, get into the trench coat. Like you see the minions do.
So you only pay for one ticket. It's like. I don't, I don't want to pay to see the movie. Well, then you don't go.
Anna: Right, right. Yeah. It's, it's good to know that expecting to repeat yourself as a normal part of the process, because I think for a lot of people, they do think that you set a boundary once and you're good to go.
And then if anybody pushes back against it, that like you said, it's something nefarious, you know, they take it personally, but I think sometimes people just forget.
Suzanne: And sometimes, very rare, one last example that is a nefarious one, my sister also runs an online business, she's got a product based business, and she has the phone number, but she doesn't have office hours, she just has the phone number, so one time, somebody rang her, it was at 2am, and she answered the phone, this, this gets my brain, because I was like, my phone's on airplane at 2am, but anyway, each their own, and so, Person's asking you a question and also too, we're a global audience, so you might not know it's 2am here in Australia.
So if you ring me, Anna, and you're like, ask me something, I'm like, Oh, Anna, like I appreciate this. It's actually 2am for me. Like I'll get back to you in the business hours and I'll update my website to reflect this and whatever. Anyway, so she hangs up from this person, like two minutes later, she rings back immediately.
My sister answers again, it's just like, it blows my mind. And then, and then she rings back the third time. And then from here, my sister puts her phone on an airplane and she wakes up to the next day to a one star Google review saying that this business wouldn't answer my questions and whatever. And I said to her, well, you can play it like you can.
You know, or you can screenshot it because I don't know about anyone else, but I love the businesses that screenshot the one star reviews or like, you know, this is the worst coffee ever. You've never been here or whatever because there's, you know, like it's not that you're making, you know, but if you're going to publicly tie your name to something, you know, why is this business so bad?
Because I answered the phone at 2am and told you like, you know, so it's just like, I think sometimes we get into this people pleasing, can't say no thing because we don't want bad reviews or we don't want this. Spit. If you're holding that over me, like, unless I do this for you, I'm going to give you a bad review.
That's not any kind of relationship I want to enter into. Friendship, business wise, whatever. It's like, if you're only doing it because you're trying to please them, that's something that, you know, you need to unpack there. But I just, that, that's a nefarious one. Like, I just, I was highly entertained.
Anyway, in the end she ended up taking it down, this review. But, you know, even if it stood there, you can, you've got the right to reply on Google review. So if you leave a review of one star and person's like, well, you did call me at 2am and I told you this. Anyone who's, but most people just read them for the popcorn.
They're not going to give any validity to it.
Anna: Yeah, so, so you're mentioning people pleasing and I would love to know what are some of the common signs that a person is a people pleaser, like a chronic people pleaser?
Suzanne: Well, I talk about this on my website. If you go to SuzanneCulberg.com, I'm very deliberate in my wording on your podcast because I'm naturally a sweary fairy, so I'm keeping it clean.
But you'll see the spiel I have about my own story. The biggest thing, if you're truly a people pleaser from my point of view, chances are you don't resonate with the term. I didn't think I was a people pleaser, I was just a good friend. I was just kind, and it was like, I was just generous. But the thing is, generosity is giving from the overflow.
So say for example, I'm going into the city, I said the Harbour Bridge is an hour from here or three. And then you're like, Oh, Suze, I want to live for the city. I'm like, cool, jump in, you know, but if I'm like, I'm working today, I'm writing a blog or doing my newsletter and you're like, Suzanne, can you take me to the city?
That is not generous for me. That is me going out of my way. That is me overgiving. If I'd planned to go anyway, or if there's something else I could do, or if you're like, here's the fuel money or whatever, but I think sometimes, you know, the people pleasing is where you drop whatever it is you had planned.
To help someone else. I said, emergency aside, like if there's an emergency, of course, but then again, what is an emergency? So I had my sister visit a different one. I've got three. And she was hired a car and she'd come, cause I live in Sydney and my family's from Tasmania, that tiny Island down the bottom.
She was going to the netball. And I said, whatever you do, make sure you book parking in Sydney. If you don't book parking, you, you're in a world of hurt. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On the day I you got the parking? And she's like, and I was like, there's no point. You won't be able to park your vehicle out there.
And she looked up and they were all booked out. And she goes, what do I do? I said, you catch a train. And she's like, I don't catch a train. She's like, can you drive me? I was like, no, I've got things on. And she's like, you won't drive me and I'm thinking, yes, you're inconvenienced by catching a train. you don't want to catch a train, catch an Uber.
I don't want to pay that much. It's like, I, the thing, this is the thing, we like the people pleaser and it's like, oh my gosh, you're slightly inconvenienced. Let me save. And it's like, if you don't want to catch a train because it's questionable, if you don't want to catch this because you don't want to pay, none of these things are my issue.
And I think that's where the people pleasing comes in. We want to rescue people from themselves. And it's like, when they experience the consequences of their actions. Every other time my sister's visited and it's gone to something, cause you know, Sydney has a lot of things that Tasmania doesn't. She always books parking.
She books, parking is the thing she books after the airline ticket. So, you know, and the same is even with your children. Like one day last year, my son and I, my husband and I have one car. So he has gone to the office. We walked to school. He rides his scooter. We get to the gate. I'm like, dude, where's your school bag?
He's like, Oh, I've left it at home. And I could have walked home, retrieved his school bag, walked back to school, given it to him. But then my whole day's plans went out. I had things that day I actually wanted to do. And I was like, well, you're going to have to learn to borrow a pencil. Like I did, if anyone listening, my kid didn't starve, thankfully apps.
I went to the thing, I made sure he had a lunch order. He had food, he had a bottle of water, but pencils, paper, all that sort of stuff. And he's never forgotten his bag again. So I think sometimes when we people please, and we rescue people from the natural consequences of their actions, the caveat is if they're going to burn harm, injure themselves, but him being without a bag for the day, isn't going to harm him, my daughter who forgot to do her homework and wanted me to help her build a diorama at 10 PM, who got a D like the, whatever you guys call a failing grade.
Oh, you're the worst mom in the world. It's like, she does her homework after school every day from now on, because I'd rather them fail now where it's safe and it doesn't matter, than when they're trying to do a job interview or when they're putting in a lease request for a house and they don't know how to fill out a form.
Anna: That makes a lot of sense. So people pleasing is different from being kind or generous because you're really over giving of yourself. And you're jumping in to rescue people from natural consequences, which would, in fact, help them become better at whatever it is that they're trying to do.
Suzanne: A hundred percent.
You can be kind, you can be generous, but when you are more invested in them succeeding, I think for me, when you're more invested in someone succeeding than they are, and then they're kind of putting the pressure on for you for them to get this. Like I see this with people with their partners or whatever, or like they're applying for a job and the person doesn't really want the job.
And they're not only are they filling out the resume, like the only thing the person needs to do is physically turn up for the interview and you're trying everything like to get them off the couch. And it's like, if they can't apply for the job and do this stuff, then are they going to be able to do it if they get it, like it's like, what is the consequence going to be?
Like, imagine if, you do everything for someone and you sat the test and whatever, but then they, the person who needs to turn up for the job, like, I remember I loved the Mighty Ducks movies, the ice skating. Well, I think you guys just call it hockey. We call it ice hockey. But anyway, long story short, I was watching it with my kids and they were like, what are these old movies?
I was like, this is good. But, I was watching My Son Loves Behind the Scenes, he gets enamored, and he was showing me behind the scenes, and apparently most of those kids highly exaggerated their ability to be able to skate when they apply, the same as people who have to horse ride in a movie. Oh yeah! And it's like, what do you mean you rode a horse?
It's like, I was at a pony in a fair once, and it's like, you do know this is Lord of the Rings and you're a rider of Rohan. So it's kind of like, when you grossly overestimate, or you help someone to the point that they're grossly overestimating their skills. You're actually putting them in a worse position, because imagine being a Rider of Rohan and turning up to the Lord of the Rings set, and you've only ever ridden a pony in a fair, it's gonna be a problem.
Anna: I love that, I love that example, that's great. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense that by jumping in and rescuing these people, you're actually doing the opposite of doing them a favor.
Suzanne: Yeah, you're making them more sunk later or more dependent. And then, and then what happens? They turn around and get mad at you.
It's your fault. I didn't want to do that movie anyway. It's your fault. I didn't, you know, and it's like, Whoa, whoa, hang on. So it's kind of like you, there's, there's a no win situation. There's them being a bit unhappy. Like. Another sister, as I said, I've got three, wanted to start a YouTube channel. I have a YouTube channel.
And she's like, can you help me set it up? And I was like, I can, however, mine's not professional. It's not great. It's not SEO. It's not this. It's not that. Like, I'm not the best person to help you. And she got so affronted. She's like, you don't want to help me. And she made this whole story. I'm like, no, let me stop you right there.
I'm not saying that I don't want to. I'm saying that. What you're asking for, I'm not the best person. You'd be better off to find someone, to give him 200, to have his crash course, to have it set up. And then all people who ask me with emails, like I send email all the time, but I have my business wife, the person who sets it all up behind the scenes and I just copy and paste.
So it's like, I'm not going to go and learn a system that I haven't learned for myself so that you can do it. Here's this person's number. Oh, I don't want to hire someone. I just, it's so funny when people say things like that, you don't want to pay someone. But you want me to figure it out to do it, to do it for you.
And then when I'm figuring it out to do it for you, I'm not actually doing my own business. Like think through the consequences of what you've just asked me. And when you say it like that, some people will get like, Oh, you're being so sarcastic. But it's like, think it through. I don't do this for me. You want me to stop what I'm doing to figure it out to do it for you because you don't want to pay someone, which is what I did.
Anna: That all makes a lot of sense. And Suzanne, I believe so you have your website, which you mentioned, you have a podcast, you have a YouTube channel, I'll make sure to link all of that, but I also believe you have a newsletter too that people can sign up for. Can you tell me more?
Suzanne: Yes, so my newsletter is called the Energetic Couch Potato.
And it's generally once a week. And the reason it's called that is. I asked my audience, what are three words you use to describe me? And I had 77 replies and I think about 50 of them said energetic. And I was like, that's, that's a really powerful tool. Anyone ask people who know you. How they would describe you, because if you ask me, to me, energetic means fit.
And so I was like, but I'm a couch potato. Hence it's named the energetic couch potato. But I email about once a week. I love to hear from people on email. So if you're on my list, send a reply, start a conversation. I think email is amazing. I don't really use social media. I can't stand people arguing in the chat box about whether this person's that like, I just, that is not a good use of my time, but I was a pen pal when I was a kid.
And I think that's why I love email so much. So Suzanne Kohlberg. com forward slash newsletter. Sign up and the first email you'll get from me at this stage, depends when you listen to this, will ask you to describe yourself in three words. So I love it when people reply to that because sometimes I hear some of those words and I'm like, we're going to be friends.
Like before I read any further, I'm like, yep, you get me.
Anna: I love that. Okay, well, Suzanne, thank you so much for stopping by today and joining me with this important conversation and advice about boundary setting and how to say no without feeling guilty. I know that my listeners will really find value in a lot of your advice.
Suzanne: Thank you so much for having me. It's been fun.
Anna: Yeah, absolutely. I've really enjoyed myself. And for all of you listening, I hope you leave feeling a little lighter and more empowered. Remember, healing takes time and you're exactly where you need to be. Take care of yourselves, and until we meet again, be kind to your heart.
